Dr. Linda Seger is the most prolific writer of in the area of screenwriting, having written nine books on the subject. Seger created and defined the job of script consultant in 1981, and since that time consulted on over 2000 scripts and presented screenwriting seminars in over thirty countries around the world. She was the script consultant for Peter Jackson’s break-through film, Brain Dead, and Roland Emmerich’s breakthrough film, UNIVERSAL SOLDIER. She presented the first professional screenwriting seminars in Russia and Bulgaria. She has given seminars for studios, networks including ABC, NBC, CBS, RAI Television (Italy), ZDF (Germany), production companies, television series (MacGyver, The Mary Show), film commissions, universities and film schools. She is the author of a second edition of WRITING SUBTEXT: WHAT LIES BENEATH, that has been revised and expanded to be useful for all fiction writers. Her latest book is 3rd Edition THE ART OF COLLABORATION: FROM SCRIPT TO SCREEN.
Order Dr. Seger's book from Michael Wiese Productions here.
Dave Watson: Congratulations on the second edition of a wonderful book, Writing Subtext. As an author, script consultant, and seminar leader, what’s new in the second edition?
Dr. Linda Seger: I expanded the book so it would be helpful to writers of fiction, not just screenwriters. I did this by focusing on examples from books made into film, so the novelist or short story writer could go back to the book and see subtext in the book. Two books I love for subtext are Ordinary People and Revolutionary Road. I also added a chapter on Analogies that focused on The Big Short, the book and the film, which is an excellent example of analogies. I re-titled chapters, added a chapter on Backstory one on Love And I added some Case Studies.
DW: Subtext appears to be something that sneaks into writing, and up on the audience. We notice when it’s not there. When do you think it’s obvious a writer or filmmaker hasn’t included subtext? With characters? Late in the story?
LS: When there's no subtext, everything is on-the-nose. It's obvious. It has no layers. Characters are 100% self-aware and can tell you everything about how they think and feel and why they think and feel that way. It's obvious right away, in the first minute or first page. And it comes through character -dialogue, actions, and gestures. It usually means the writer is doing one draft,rather than tweaking and honing through ten to twenty drafts to keep layering and deepening.
DW: Subtext lends itself to backstory, adding psychological weight and emotional impact to a character. This seems hard to do for writers and filmmakers. Would you agree? Why?
LS: Everything about writing is hard at one time or another. Sometimes writers aren't honing their skills at observing people, because observation is a first step toward learning subtext. We also need to think about our own experiences with subtext and ponder what it means. That's why I also use real-life examples in the book that writers may have encountered. It helps to be somewhat psychologically astute. One can learn more by taking a psychology class or reading books about psychology. We keep deepening ourselves in order to deepen our characters.
DW: It also appears too lend itself readily to suspense. You use Hitchcock’s Shadow of a Doubt at one point, how it shows denial, attitudes, and cover-ups. Would you agree?
LS: Shadow of a Doubt is one of the best examples I found for subtext. Since suspense depends on not knowing what's going on. it needs to use subtext. Double Indemnity is another good example. Many psychological dramas are dependent on subtext, because characters are often not self-aware, and are struggling to understand why they do what they do.
DW: You also discuss analogies. How do they fit with subtext?
LS: When I saw The Big Short, I realized I had a whole new chapter for this second edition. Subtext is about a careful choice of words that resonate with multiple meanings. Subtext often uses similes and analogies - Something is like something else. If someone says, "He's like a pit bull" or "He's a pit bull," we bring layers of meaning to that description. On the one hand, we presume he doesn't give up. But we might also think further about that phrase, and realize he's mean, he might attack without provocation, or whatever meanings we bring to the breed of pit bull. It means that one sentence has subterranean meanings that rumble beneath the surface. That's subtext, what lies beneath.
DW: Gestures and action are perfect for film, whether they are a closeup or part of the frame that the audience subconsciously notices. In this era of spectacle mainstream movies, is this vanishing? Sometimes I think it is and sometimes not.
LS: It depends on the film, of course. I loved this year's films, because I sensed things were going on underneath the surface. In Hidden Figures, the whole idea of racism keeps rumbling until it finally comes out in the encounter of Katherine and her boss. In Florence Foster Jenkins, you just need to watch the accompanist to see how he has to hold in what he's really thinking, which then comes out in wide-eyed wonderment and giggles.
DW: Straightforward dramas such as Ordinary People use subtext as an integral part of the story, in that case dealing with the past. Is this one of the more powerful uses of it?
LS: In many films, a flashback to the past finally uncovers what has been going on beneath the surface for much of the film. The Something Unspoken is finally said. What was Covered and Secret is Uncovered and Exposed. Finally there's a Reveal, usually in the Third Act or even around the Second Turning Point. Subtext is set in our past, but it continues to inform our words and action in the present.
DW: You’ve consulted on thousands of scripts. What do you find writers need to work on the most before bringing a script/story to you?
LS: I can work on any project as soon as there is a storyline, even if very unformed. Sometimes writers bring a one=page synopsis of what they are planning to write, and I can help them evaluate where the work needs to be, or what needs to be changed to create a story.And sometimes I surprise them when I tell them there's something very much worth pursuing, even if they've only given me a paragraph or two. Most writers come to me with a draft - usually early in the process, but sometimes it's late in the process, a few weeks before filming, or once a script came to me the weekend before filming. But the earlier the better, once there's an idea and a sense of a storyline.
DW: What’s next for you?
LS: I'm just starting to work on a new edition of From Script to Screen: The Collaborative Art of Filmmaking. The consulting continues. One script just finished filming and I've been doing notes on the rough cut of that film. Another filmed the week of February 13th. A few are raising money, which does take time. And I work with a wide variety of writers - from first-time writers to very experienced writers. I love my work!
DW: What is your favorite cinematic moment? One that inspired you early on and still does to this day?
LS: Well, there are many, but here's two. I'm always inspired when people stand up for each other. Atticus Finch in To Kill a Mockingbird stands up for Tom against the mob. He tells the mob, "He's asleep, don't wake him." So I love moments like this that have humor in them, and wisdom and strength. I love images of Integrity, when people stand up for what's right and won't back down. This inspires me to try to always stand on Integrity on any situation.
Another one is from a movie that makes me laugh out loud, no matter how often I see it, The Birdcage. What inspires me about this movie is how much everyone loves the son, Val, and what they'll do to help him, even if it goes a bit against their grain. And how Val finally accepts everyone as they are, and is willing to announce that acceptance. There's lots of love in that film, underneath the outrageous comedy. And that keeps inspiring me to put Love and Kindness first, even when it's a challenge.
Clips: To Kill a Mockingbird
The Birdcage
Order Dr. Seger's book from Michael Wiese Productions here.
Dave Watson: Congratulations on the second edition of a wonderful book, Writing Subtext. As an author, script consultant, and seminar leader, what’s new in the second edition?
Dr. Linda Seger: I expanded the book so it would be helpful to writers of fiction, not just screenwriters. I did this by focusing on examples from books made into film, so the novelist or short story writer could go back to the book and see subtext in the book. Two books I love for subtext are Ordinary People and Revolutionary Road. I also added a chapter on Analogies that focused on The Big Short, the book and the film, which is an excellent example of analogies. I re-titled chapters, added a chapter on Backstory one on Love And I added some Case Studies.
DW: Subtext appears to be something that sneaks into writing, and up on the audience. We notice when it’s not there. When do you think it’s obvious a writer or filmmaker hasn’t included subtext? With characters? Late in the story?
LS: When there's no subtext, everything is on-the-nose. It's obvious. It has no layers. Characters are 100% self-aware and can tell you everything about how they think and feel and why they think and feel that way. It's obvious right away, in the first minute or first page. And it comes through character -dialogue, actions, and gestures. It usually means the writer is doing one draft,rather than tweaking and honing through ten to twenty drafts to keep layering and deepening.
DW: Subtext lends itself to backstory, adding psychological weight and emotional impact to a character. This seems hard to do for writers and filmmakers. Would you agree? Why?
LS: Everything about writing is hard at one time or another. Sometimes writers aren't honing their skills at observing people, because observation is a first step toward learning subtext. We also need to think about our own experiences with subtext and ponder what it means. That's why I also use real-life examples in the book that writers may have encountered. It helps to be somewhat psychologically astute. One can learn more by taking a psychology class or reading books about psychology. We keep deepening ourselves in order to deepen our characters.
DW: It also appears too lend itself readily to suspense. You use Hitchcock’s Shadow of a Doubt at one point, how it shows denial, attitudes, and cover-ups. Would you agree?
LS: Shadow of a Doubt is one of the best examples I found for subtext. Since suspense depends on not knowing what's going on. it needs to use subtext. Double Indemnity is another good example. Many psychological dramas are dependent on subtext, because characters are often not self-aware, and are struggling to understand why they do what they do.
DW: You also discuss analogies. How do they fit with subtext?
LS: When I saw The Big Short, I realized I had a whole new chapter for this second edition. Subtext is about a careful choice of words that resonate with multiple meanings. Subtext often uses similes and analogies - Something is like something else. If someone says, "He's like a pit bull" or "He's a pit bull," we bring layers of meaning to that description. On the one hand, we presume he doesn't give up. But we might also think further about that phrase, and realize he's mean, he might attack without provocation, or whatever meanings we bring to the breed of pit bull. It means that one sentence has subterranean meanings that rumble beneath the surface. That's subtext, what lies beneath.
DW: Gestures and action are perfect for film, whether they are a closeup or part of the frame that the audience subconsciously notices. In this era of spectacle mainstream movies, is this vanishing? Sometimes I think it is and sometimes not.
LS: It depends on the film, of course. I loved this year's films, because I sensed things were going on underneath the surface. In Hidden Figures, the whole idea of racism keeps rumbling until it finally comes out in the encounter of Katherine and her boss. In Florence Foster Jenkins, you just need to watch the accompanist to see how he has to hold in what he's really thinking, which then comes out in wide-eyed wonderment and giggles.
DW: Straightforward dramas such as Ordinary People use subtext as an integral part of the story, in that case dealing with the past. Is this one of the more powerful uses of it?
LS: In many films, a flashback to the past finally uncovers what has been going on beneath the surface for much of the film. The Something Unspoken is finally said. What was Covered and Secret is Uncovered and Exposed. Finally there's a Reveal, usually in the Third Act or even around the Second Turning Point. Subtext is set in our past, but it continues to inform our words and action in the present.
DW: You’ve consulted on thousands of scripts. What do you find writers need to work on the most before bringing a script/story to you?
LS: I can work on any project as soon as there is a storyline, even if very unformed. Sometimes writers bring a one=page synopsis of what they are planning to write, and I can help them evaluate where the work needs to be, or what needs to be changed to create a story.And sometimes I surprise them when I tell them there's something very much worth pursuing, even if they've only given me a paragraph or two. Most writers come to me with a draft - usually early in the process, but sometimes it's late in the process, a few weeks before filming, or once a script came to me the weekend before filming. But the earlier the better, once there's an idea and a sense of a storyline.
DW: What’s next for you?
LS: I'm just starting to work on a new edition of From Script to Screen: The Collaborative Art of Filmmaking. The consulting continues. One script just finished filming and I've been doing notes on the rough cut of that film. Another filmed the week of February 13th. A few are raising money, which does take time. And I work with a wide variety of writers - from first-time writers to very experienced writers. I love my work!
DW: What is your favorite cinematic moment? One that inspired you early on and still does to this day?
LS: Well, there are many, but here's two. I'm always inspired when people stand up for each other. Atticus Finch in To Kill a Mockingbird stands up for Tom against the mob. He tells the mob, "He's asleep, don't wake him." So I love moments like this that have humor in them, and wisdom and strength. I love images of Integrity, when people stand up for what's right and won't back down. This inspires me to try to always stand on Integrity on any situation.
Another one is from a movie that makes me laugh out loud, no matter how often I see it, The Birdcage. What inspires me about this movie is how much everyone loves the son, Val, and what they'll do to help him, even if it goes a bit against their grain. And how Val finally accepts everyone as they are, and is willing to announce that acceptance. There's lots of love in that film, underneath the outrageous comedy. And that keeps inspiring me to put Love and Kindness first, even when it's a challenge.
Clips: To Kill a Mockingbird
The Birdcage
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