Come see Kathie! She and other MWP authors will be speaking in Minneapolis this July 31st at The Future of Story conference!
Order Kathie's book from Michael Wiese Productions here.
Dave Watson: First of all, congratulations on the book. How does the 2nd Edition build on the first?
Kathie Fong Yoneda: Whereas the 1st edition focused mostly on feature films, the 2nd edition now includes information on submitting for television and the differences between a “spec” script and a “shooting” script. And by popular request, I’ve included an expanded number of examples for loglines, elevator pitches, 1-page pitch-on-papers, synopses, and query letters, which are tools that writers need to have in order to promote their work and themselves. The 2nd edition has two brand new chapters: one that covers information on writing for the Animation market and another on using the web not only as a means of gathering marketing information, but also focuses on the rising popularity of web series as a valid emerging scripted outlet for writers.
DW: Do you coach writers to have an audience in mind? From developing ideas to pitches to finished script? You often hear the question, “Who’s the audience for this?”
KFY: Once I’ve heard a writer’s pitch or read their script, I will often ask, “Who is your audience?” And of course the most common response from newer scribes is, “Well, everyone!” The honest truth is that not all moviegoers or TV-viewers are going to rush to the theater or stay glued to the TV set or computer to see your movie or TV project. Writers need to think about the answer to the following questions:
· What genre is their project? Is it a Family Drama? Romantic Comedy? Action-Adventure? Political Thriller? Adult Comedy? Police Procedural?
· Who is more likely to view your project? Children under 10? Pre-teens? Teens? People in their 20s? 30s? Over 50?
· Is your project more likely to appeal to Men or Women? Married? Single? Gay or Transgender?
· Most execs and producers will usually also consider socio-economic appeal as well as whether it’s a project that can appeal to a racially diverse audience.
By the way, while writers should state the genre of their project in a pitch, I would strongly discourage them from stating the demographics or socio-economic appeal unless an agent, exec or producer asks. If your pitch is well told, they should know who the audience is without being told. If they need to ask you, it usually signals that your pitch didn’t contain enough story and needs character clarification.
DW: Navigating the industry is definitely a focus of your book, including taking meetings, yet one sometimes hears work ethic in Hollywood is all over the map. How do you account for that? Do you agree or is there a straight-up professionalism that shines through?
KFY: I’ve come to realize that no matter what industry you’re in, there will always be people with different personalities, attitudes and work ethics. In a creative industry like entertainment, there isn’t necessarily the same standards and guidelines that one might find in the legal, medical or financial professions, where you have required degrees, tests and accreditations in those fields. In the 90s the Industry was aptly named “a shark tank.” But I’ve noticed that the recent roller coaster ride with our economy has brought about a less caustic, slightly more cordial sense of professionalism which is becoming more the norm. To succeed in a creative industry, it helps to have a tough hide and the ability to prepare for the unexpected.
DW: At one point you discuss different kinds of pitches, so people who read this book are able to pitch any time, anywhere. Do you pitch at different levels in the production field, to say, a producer versus a production company versus a Mogul?
KFY: If you are new to the business, it means you’ll probably be pitching to or meeting with people who may be lower on the totem pole; but I always tell newbies that you never know when someone’s assistant or junior exec may turn out to be a senior exec or respected agent or producer two or three years down the line. The newer you are in the business, the less time you’ll have to pitch your project and yourself to an agent, producer or exec. If you’re a writer who has an agent, manager or entertainment lawyer, you’ll find yourself in actual meetings where the person you are pitching to will have more time to get to know you and your work and you will hopefully have more time to build a relationship with that person.
DW: The submission and development process appears, to many an outsider, to be long and frustrating. Are there consistent or common reasons why scripts are rejected or not considered?
KFY: There’s a whole chapter in my book that discusses some of the many reasons why projects are often rejected. One red flag is using too many flashbacks or voiceovers to “explain” a character’s feelings or to let the audience know what’s taking place. For new writers, there is also a tendency to try to put in too many plot points and characters in an effort to provide “something for everyone.” And when it comes to structure, it’s not uncommon to realize that while a writer has given a lot of thought on how his story will start and knows exactly how it’s going to end, not as much attention has been given to Act 2 which may start to drag because the writer hasn’t developed his characters and plot more fully. The unfortunate result is that the script starts to feel episodic because there isn’t enough escalating conflict and tension as it heads into the Act 3.
DW: Toward the end you discuss creating opportunities for yourself. Being a screenwriter seems like an entrepreneur in some respects. Would you agree?
KFY: No matter what you do in the entertainment industry, it’s important to have an entrepreneurial spirit and outlook. Since writers are the primary source of entertainment projects, it’s vital that you are observant, imaginative and visionary, which are the key qualities of an entrepreneur. Most successful screenwriters look for a unique point of view on situations that can be both familiar and fascinating to us.
DW: With the advent of the Web, streaming, and related content, are there more doors open now to getting scripts produced than before, or are there still similar barriers to entry? This in a way gets back to the audience question.
KFY: There are more opportunities for screenwriters with the Web, streaming video and new technology. Web series are clamoring for attention and because of the Internet and new technology as well as crowd-funding sites, it’s much more cost-effective for writers and filmmakers to bring their stories and their talent to the public’s attention. Right now, there really aren’t as many barriers to get your material on the Web. But, like television in the 50s and cable TV in the 90s, I have a feeling that in the next several years, Web content may eventually succumb to the all-mighty business dollar and some of the familiar conventions like studios or networks, needing an agent or rep, etc. may invade the world of Web content as well.
DW: Is industry and navigation that much harder with more avenues of production? Where do you see distribution going into the future? I realize that’s a slightly loaded question.
KFY: I am hopeful (here I go being a Pollyanna again) that with more avenues of production, there would be more opportunities for creators. But as mentioned in the last question, people in the film community were initially hesitant about television (even though it created more jobs and opportunities), and then film and television were hesitant about cable TV (which also provided more jobs/opportunities), and now we have the Web (which, through technology, provides more opportunities on a global stage). It seems to me that the distributors are the ones who hold a lot of the power and control of the flow of creative platforms. It’ll be interesting to see what happens in the next several years.
DW: Speaking of navigation, you have a chapter on industry doublespeak. Why an entire chapter?
KFY: My chapter called “Talking the Talk: Industry Speak (a.k.a. What the Hell Are They Talking About)" has a dual purpose.
DW: Just like being in the legal, medical or financial professions, the entertainment field has its own “industry speak”. How can you be in a certain profession or industry if you don’t understand the terminology that’s being used?
KFY: In addition to knowing the jargon, I wanted to put the doublespeak in a context that would show how it might be used. In "Talking the Talk," I placed two writers in a Screenwriting Conference and used their experience, placing various industry terms within their success story.
DW: What are you currently working on, and what’s next?
KFY: I am a board member for the LAWEBFEST and am putting together some of the speakers and panels for this event (March 26-30), which was the first web series festival and is now in its 5th year. April 3-6 I’ll be in Madison, Wisconsin for the 25th anniversary of The Writers Institute, a conference put on by the University of Wisconsin’s Continuing Education department. I’ll be doing workshops, one-on-one meetings and a couple of panels, one of which will be moderated by you, David! And I’ll be doing a special workshop for the Wisconsin Screenwriters Forum. I’ll be team-teaching with my friend/colleague Carole Kirschner at the Minneapolis Community Technical College (April 18-20). Other events on my schedule are the Great American Pitchfest (June 20 – 22) in Burbank and Story Expo (Sept. 5-7) in Los Angeles and the Festival du Web in Marseille France in October. I’m also working on proposals for possible seminars in Malaysia and China.
DW: Is there one movie or movie moment that has stuck with you over the years, that you still remember more than any other?
KFY: That’s a tough one…there are so many movies that have touched me deeply. Probably one of my favorite films is Dances With Wolves. I love the ending when Dunbar (the Kevin Costner character) makes the difficult decision to leave the Sioux tribe. If he stays with the tribe, it will endanger the people he has come to love like a family. As he leaves on horseback with his wife, a Sioux tribesman, Wind In His Hair, (who was once Dunbar’s sworn enemy) sits astride his horse on a cliff, shouting loudly in Lakota that Dances With Wolves will always be his friend. No matter how many times I’ve seen that film, I can’t help but be moved by how two people who were once considered enemies, can eventually have such a deep and abiding friendship. Thought you might like to take a look at that ending:
Clip: Dances With Wolves
Dave Watson is a writer and Editor of Movies Matter. He lives in Madison, WI.
Order Kathie's book from Michael Wiese Productions here.
Dave Watson: First of all, congratulations on the book. How does the 2nd Edition build on the first?
Kathie Fong Yoneda: Whereas the 1st edition focused mostly on feature films, the 2nd edition now includes information on submitting for television and the differences between a “spec” script and a “shooting” script. And by popular request, I’ve included an expanded number of examples for loglines, elevator pitches, 1-page pitch-on-papers, synopses, and query letters, which are tools that writers need to have in order to promote their work and themselves. The 2nd edition has two brand new chapters: one that covers information on writing for the Animation market and another on using the web not only as a means of gathering marketing information, but also focuses on the rising popularity of web series as a valid emerging scripted outlet for writers.
DW: Do you coach writers to have an audience in mind? From developing ideas to pitches to finished script? You often hear the question, “Who’s the audience for this?”
KFY: Once I’ve heard a writer’s pitch or read their script, I will often ask, “Who is your audience?” And of course the most common response from newer scribes is, “Well, everyone!” The honest truth is that not all moviegoers or TV-viewers are going to rush to the theater or stay glued to the TV set or computer to see your movie or TV project. Writers need to think about the answer to the following questions:
· What genre is their project? Is it a Family Drama? Romantic Comedy? Action-Adventure? Political Thriller? Adult Comedy? Police Procedural?
· Who is more likely to view your project? Children under 10? Pre-teens? Teens? People in their 20s? 30s? Over 50?
· Is your project more likely to appeal to Men or Women? Married? Single? Gay or Transgender?
· Most execs and producers will usually also consider socio-economic appeal as well as whether it’s a project that can appeal to a racially diverse audience.
By the way, while writers should state the genre of their project in a pitch, I would strongly discourage them from stating the demographics or socio-economic appeal unless an agent, exec or producer asks. If your pitch is well told, they should know who the audience is without being told. If they need to ask you, it usually signals that your pitch didn’t contain enough story and needs character clarification.
DW: Navigating the industry is definitely a focus of your book, including taking meetings, yet one sometimes hears work ethic in Hollywood is all over the map. How do you account for that? Do you agree or is there a straight-up professionalism that shines through?
KFY: I’ve come to realize that no matter what industry you’re in, there will always be people with different personalities, attitudes and work ethics. In a creative industry like entertainment, there isn’t necessarily the same standards and guidelines that one might find in the legal, medical or financial professions, where you have required degrees, tests and accreditations in those fields. In the 90s the Industry was aptly named “a shark tank.” But I’ve noticed that the recent roller coaster ride with our economy has brought about a less caustic, slightly more cordial sense of professionalism which is becoming more the norm. To succeed in a creative industry, it helps to have a tough hide and the ability to prepare for the unexpected.
DW: At one point you discuss different kinds of pitches, so people who read this book are able to pitch any time, anywhere. Do you pitch at different levels in the production field, to say, a producer versus a production company versus a Mogul?
KFY: If you are new to the business, it means you’ll probably be pitching to or meeting with people who may be lower on the totem pole; but I always tell newbies that you never know when someone’s assistant or junior exec may turn out to be a senior exec or respected agent or producer two or three years down the line. The newer you are in the business, the less time you’ll have to pitch your project and yourself to an agent, producer or exec. If you’re a writer who has an agent, manager or entertainment lawyer, you’ll find yourself in actual meetings where the person you are pitching to will have more time to get to know you and your work and you will hopefully have more time to build a relationship with that person.
DW: The submission and development process appears, to many an outsider, to be long and frustrating. Are there consistent or common reasons why scripts are rejected or not considered?
KFY: There’s a whole chapter in my book that discusses some of the many reasons why projects are often rejected. One red flag is using too many flashbacks or voiceovers to “explain” a character’s feelings or to let the audience know what’s taking place. For new writers, there is also a tendency to try to put in too many plot points and characters in an effort to provide “something for everyone.” And when it comes to structure, it’s not uncommon to realize that while a writer has given a lot of thought on how his story will start and knows exactly how it’s going to end, not as much attention has been given to Act 2 which may start to drag because the writer hasn’t developed his characters and plot more fully. The unfortunate result is that the script starts to feel episodic because there isn’t enough escalating conflict and tension as it heads into the Act 3.
DW: Toward the end you discuss creating opportunities for yourself. Being a screenwriter seems like an entrepreneur in some respects. Would you agree?
KFY: No matter what you do in the entertainment industry, it’s important to have an entrepreneurial spirit and outlook. Since writers are the primary source of entertainment projects, it’s vital that you are observant, imaginative and visionary, which are the key qualities of an entrepreneur. Most successful screenwriters look for a unique point of view on situations that can be both familiar and fascinating to us.
DW: With the advent of the Web, streaming, and related content, are there more doors open now to getting scripts produced than before, or are there still similar barriers to entry? This in a way gets back to the audience question.
KFY: There are more opportunities for screenwriters with the Web, streaming video and new technology. Web series are clamoring for attention and because of the Internet and new technology as well as crowd-funding sites, it’s much more cost-effective for writers and filmmakers to bring their stories and their talent to the public’s attention. Right now, there really aren’t as many barriers to get your material on the Web. But, like television in the 50s and cable TV in the 90s, I have a feeling that in the next several years, Web content may eventually succumb to the all-mighty business dollar and some of the familiar conventions like studios or networks, needing an agent or rep, etc. may invade the world of Web content as well.
DW: Is industry and navigation that much harder with more avenues of production? Where do you see distribution going into the future? I realize that’s a slightly loaded question.
KFY: I am hopeful (here I go being a Pollyanna again) that with more avenues of production, there would be more opportunities for creators. But as mentioned in the last question, people in the film community were initially hesitant about television (even though it created more jobs and opportunities), and then film and television were hesitant about cable TV (which also provided more jobs/opportunities), and now we have the Web (which, through technology, provides more opportunities on a global stage). It seems to me that the distributors are the ones who hold a lot of the power and control of the flow of creative platforms. It’ll be interesting to see what happens in the next several years.
DW: Speaking of navigation, you have a chapter on industry doublespeak. Why an entire chapter?
KFY: My chapter called “Talking the Talk: Industry Speak (a.k.a. What the Hell Are They Talking About)" has a dual purpose.
DW: Just like being in the legal, medical or financial professions, the entertainment field has its own “industry speak”. How can you be in a certain profession or industry if you don’t understand the terminology that’s being used?
KFY: In addition to knowing the jargon, I wanted to put the doublespeak in a context that would show how it might be used. In "Talking the Talk," I placed two writers in a Screenwriting Conference and used their experience, placing various industry terms within their success story.
DW: What are you currently working on, and what’s next?
KFY: I am a board member for the LAWEBFEST and am putting together some of the speakers and panels for this event (March 26-30), which was the first web series festival and is now in its 5th year. April 3-6 I’ll be in Madison, Wisconsin for the 25th anniversary of The Writers Institute, a conference put on by the University of Wisconsin’s Continuing Education department. I’ll be doing workshops, one-on-one meetings and a couple of panels, one of which will be moderated by you, David! And I’ll be doing a special workshop for the Wisconsin Screenwriters Forum. I’ll be team-teaching with my friend/colleague Carole Kirschner at the Minneapolis Community Technical College (April 18-20). Other events on my schedule are the Great American Pitchfest (June 20 – 22) in Burbank and Story Expo (Sept. 5-7) in Los Angeles and the Festival du Web in Marseille France in October. I’m also working on proposals for possible seminars in Malaysia and China.
DW: Is there one movie or movie moment that has stuck with you over the years, that you still remember more than any other?
KFY: That’s a tough one…there are so many movies that have touched me deeply. Probably one of my favorite films is Dances With Wolves. I love the ending when Dunbar (the Kevin Costner character) makes the difficult decision to leave the Sioux tribe. If he stays with the tribe, it will endanger the people he has come to love like a family. As he leaves on horseback with his wife, a Sioux tribesman, Wind In His Hair, (who was once Dunbar’s sworn enemy) sits astride his horse on a cliff, shouting loudly in Lakota that Dances With Wolves will always be his friend. No matter how many times I’ve seen that film, I can’t help but be moved by how two people who were once considered enemies, can eventually have such a deep and abiding friendship. Thought you might like to take a look at that ending:
Clip: Dances With Wolves
Dave Watson is a writer and Editor of Movies Matter. He lives in Madison, WI.
