Tom's book BANKROLL is available from Michael Wiese Productions. You can also visit Tom at
www.TomMalloy.com, www.trickcandle.com and check out his new site, www.filmfinanceguide.com.
Dave Watson: First, congratulations on the book. Why a second edition?
Tom Malloy: The first edition came out in 2008, and so much has changed with the banking crisis in ’08. One big change is that low-budget movies was how you got your money back. You could also use B, C, and D-list actors and they would get paid decently, and they can’t work for decent pay anymore in feature films. You’ll always have A-listers, yet it’s uncertain with features, which is why you see them doing TV. Halle Berry, Matthew McConaughey are doing TV now.
DW: In another interview, one person said that’s where the cutting edge of storytelling is now.
TM: Well, it’s where the money is. These days, there’s not much money in the indie film business. So there’s always a desire to obtain financing. You also sometimes need extra financing to finish a film. Even if you need a small amount like $20,000, that’s still a lot of money to some people, and you don’t want the budget to be the selling point of the film. You want the investment on the screen and to add ten times the value to appear on the screen. Then there are the big studio projects… the gap is just getting wider. James Cameron is the pioneer of mega-budget, and he took a story that’s been done before but with amazing special effects. Look at The Last Samurai, which literally took the same story as Dances With Wolves. Cameron took that storyline point by point, and he got his film financed and made.
DW: What comprises a film budget? This is one of those murky areas to outsiders where we see a movie cost this much, and people won’t be sure if that includes marketing or production costs, then we’ll hear about how much was spent on promotional advertising for a film.
TM: With prints, they are a fixed cost for example. Advertising can be all over the place and marketing is the unknown factor. With indies, people have to be very creative because they don’t have the budgets. That’s why a lot of indie filmmakers choose horror. With horror movies, you don’t need stars. Insidious is a great example. It had Patrick Wilson and Rose Byrne, who aren’t gigantic, but that film worked.
DW: Is high concept still going?
TM: At the studio level, yes. I just met Shane Black (Lethal Weapon, The Long Kiss Goodnight) who’s a studio guy. Just two different worlds. There are still writers who are more high concept. That’s the difference between the studio and independent worlds. The mid-range films that were made for six to twenty million, those ones are gone now.
DW: In your book you discuss the distributor’s fee approach.
TM: It’s the studio way for indies. They look to improve the project, attaching money, cash, and now you’re legit. That leads to a better pitch when you’re looking for financing.
DW: In a way you’re doing it in reverse. Writing, improving the story, then doing your pitch, instead of starting with the pitch. What about alternative routes such as Indiegogo and Kickstarter?
TM: There’s a problem with that model. A lot of people may think, “Just Launch it and in thirty days I’ll have that number!” It’s harder to get thirty people to chip in versus getting $30,000 from one investor. It’s smarter to focus on one investor. And that investor should be someone who has no connection to the film business. Do not go for people in the film world. They have their own self interest in mind (which is fine) because that’s their business. Go for HNIs… High Net Worth Individuals.
DW: Is it hard to get financing for TV shows?
TM: Yes. It’s not the smartest move to finance a TV pilot and then sell it to a major network. Now Netflix has forged its own financing, and Kevin Spacey and David Fincher went to them and it’s hard to turn them down because, well, they’re them. I was just in Miami with a Sizzle Reel, looking to sell content.
DW: I just finished reading Blockbusters by Anita Elberse. Those films still make money, though a neighbor asked where they were this season and I wrote that three big ones, Captain America: Winter Soldier, The Amazing Spider-Man 2, and Godzilla are already out of theaters. Do you think blockbusters are endangered?
TM: No, they do sell boatloads of money and will always be demand. Look at Iron Man 3. There’s also the rise of video on demand, and though there isn’t much money there for indies, there still is for studio films.
DW: What's next for you? You work as a consultant and give workshops on...
TM: Just finished two films. One was a film I tried to get off the ground for years (HERO OF THE UNDERWORLD), and a last film which fell into my lap that I was really excited about (FAIR HAVEN). Both are in post. I’m working on developing several other projects.
DW: What is the most memorable cinematic moment for you?
TM: For me it was dancing with Betty White in Love N’ Dancing. She is such a Hollywood icon and a wonderful person. For me that was a dream come true, and why I got into films in the first place. I watched movies growing up, Star Trek, Star Wars, and at some time, I don’t think there was a specific time, I said, I want to be there, in there, creating that.
Clip: Love N’ Dancing
www.TomMalloy.com, www.trickcandle.com and check out his new site, www.filmfinanceguide.com.
Dave Watson: First, congratulations on the book. Why a second edition?
Tom Malloy: The first edition came out in 2008, and so much has changed with the banking crisis in ’08. One big change is that low-budget movies was how you got your money back. You could also use B, C, and D-list actors and they would get paid decently, and they can’t work for decent pay anymore in feature films. You’ll always have A-listers, yet it’s uncertain with features, which is why you see them doing TV. Halle Berry, Matthew McConaughey are doing TV now.
DW: In another interview, one person said that’s where the cutting edge of storytelling is now.
TM: Well, it’s where the money is. These days, there’s not much money in the indie film business. So there’s always a desire to obtain financing. You also sometimes need extra financing to finish a film. Even if you need a small amount like $20,000, that’s still a lot of money to some people, and you don’t want the budget to be the selling point of the film. You want the investment on the screen and to add ten times the value to appear on the screen. Then there are the big studio projects… the gap is just getting wider. James Cameron is the pioneer of mega-budget, and he took a story that’s been done before but with amazing special effects. Look at The Last Samurai, which literally took the same story as Dances With Wolves. Cameron took that storyline point by point, and he got his film financed and made.
DW: What comprises a film budget? This is one of those murky areas to outsiders where we see a movie cost this much, and people won’t be sure if that includes marketing or production costs, then we’ll hear about how much was spent on promotional advertising for a film.
TM: With prints, they are a fixed cost for example. Advertising can be all over the place and marketing is the unknown factor. With indies, people have to be very creative because they don’t have the budgets. That’s why a lot of indie filmmakers choose horror. With horror movies, you don’t need stars. Insidious is a great example. It had Patrick Wilson and Rose Byrne, who aren’t gigantic, but that film worked.
DW: Is high concept still going?
TM: At the studio level, yes. I just met Shane Black (Lethal Weapon, The Long Kiss Goodnight) who’s a studio guy. Just two different worlds. There are still writers who are more high concept. That’s the difference between the studio and independent worlds. The mid-range films that were made for six to twenty million, those ones are gone now.
DW: In your book you discuss the distributor’s fee approach.
TM: It’s the studio way for indies. They look to improve the project, attaching money, cash, and now you’re legit. That leads to a better pitch when you’re looking for financing.
DW: In a way you’re doing it in reverse. Writing, improving the story, then doing your pitch, instead of starting with the pitch. What about alternative routes such as Indiegogo and Kickstarter?
TM: There’s a problem with that model. A lot of people may think, “Just Launch it and in thirty days I’ll have that number!” It’s harder to get thirty people to chip in versus getting $30,000 from one investor. It’s smarter to focus on one investor. And that investor should be someone who has no connection to the film business. Do not go for people in the film world. They have their own self interest in mind (which is fine) because that’s their business. Go for HNIs… High Net Worth Individuals.
DW: Is it hard to get financing for TV shows?
TM: Yes. It’s not the smartest move to finance a TV pilot and then sell it to a major network. Now Netflix has forged its own financing, and Kevin Spacey and David Fincher went to them and it’s hard to turn them down because, well, they’re them. I was just in Miami with a Sizzle Reel, looking to sell content.
DW: I just finished reading Blockbusters by Anita Elberse. Those films still make money, though a neighbor asked where they were this season and I wrote that three big ones, Captain America: Winter Soldier, The Amazing Spider-Man 2, and Godzilla are already out of theaters. Do you think blockbusters are endangered?
TM: No, they do sell boatloads of money and will always be demand. Look at Iron Man 3. There’s also the rise of video on demand, and though there isn’t much money there for indies, there still is for studio films.
DW: What's next for you? You work as a consultant and give workshops on...
TM: Just finished two films. One was a film I tried to get off the ground for years (HERO OF THE UNDERWORLD), and a last film which fell into my lap that I was really excited about (FAIR HAVEN). Both are in post. I’m working on developing several other projects.
DW: What is the most memorable cinematic moment for you?
TM: For me it was dancing with Betty White in Love N’ Dancing. She is such a Hollywood icon and a wonderful person. For me that was a dream come true, and why I got into films in the first place. I watched movies growing up, Star Trek, Star Wars, and at some time, I don’t think there was a specific time, I said, I want to be there, in there, creating that.
Clip: Love N’ Dancing
