Dave Watson: I read you are equally at home in the worlds of TV, film and theater. Where did you start?
Marilyn R. Atlas: I began by producing plays. I fell in love with the use of language that some of my favorite playwrights had, and I began to realize that that mastery of language and especially sub textual dialogue would be able to translate into any performative medium. And I always found that theatre, like books, had a greater resonance for me than film and television. I can’t explain exactly why, but I feel it has something to do with the immediacy of the characters present on the stage or in my imagination. As starting points, theater offered a more compelling emotional and performative entry point, whereas books remain the only medium that go inside a character's head, an element removed from film and television.
DW: Do you still read books and look for source material?
MA: I have always been a voracious reader. I am innately curious and often read 2-3 books a week, endless magazines, newspapers, etc. If I read something that is interesting, I might see if it lends itself to film or television, but remember, the really hot projects are usually snapped up already by established production companies and producers.
DW: You produce for TV, particularly the HBO and Lifetime channels.
MA: I co-produced a movie for HBO based on a play called Real Women Have Curves. For Lifetime, I recently produced The Choking Game, based on a young adult novel called Choke, because the writing and story intrigued me.
DW: Much of your work focuses on women. Has it gotten easier for women to succeed in show business or Hollywood since you started. Loaded question, I know. Consider from the standpoint of a producer, consultant, or actress.
MA: That depends on your definition of success. There are still not enough female studio executives, directors, or cinematographers. In studies on women in film in the studio world, they are still represented only in single digits. And although cable television has become a destination for high profile actresses, there's still a dearth of women below the line, and only a handful above the line.
DW: One sometimes hear of actresses finding it hard to get work after thirty, yet some, Susan Sarandon, Geena Davis, Jeanne Triplehorn, to name just a few, have worked well after this age range. Is there a secret?
MA: From an acting standpoint, 2013 was portrayed as the year of the “bitch” – women portrayed in films from this past year are overwhelmingly playing to that one characteristic. Films geared toward women are constantly being put down as financially risky, yet when they do well (as they often do), studios are shocked and look at it as a fluke. That said, this is the first year where the biggest films of the year involved women in lead roles. One thing I’ve noticed in a lot of studio movies is that men and the quest for relationships are the center of the women’s lives but in the real lives of women I know, that is not actually the case. Television seems to provide a wider and much more complex and interesting range of female roles.
DW: I recall an interview in the late 1980s with Jody Foster and the late Gene Siskel. Gene lamented that women’s roles were in decline while Jody thought it was cyclical, that good roles for women come and go. Would you agree with either take?
MA: In my observation, there are far more roles for men than for women once you reach a certain age. I think that people are increasingly aware of this disparity, and I see a narrowing of that inequity. As for a “secret”, I think it’s due to establishing themselves early in their career and playing very memorable parts.
DW: You make an interesting observation. Are women’s roles cyclical, doing well then poorly? Is the career woman a passing fad for female characters? Say, “Ah, we’ve done that, let’s move on.”
MA: I do think that there are more interesting, three-dimensional roles for women these days, but they’re in television and not often in studio features.
DW: What do you look for when producing material? Does it change or has it changed over time?
MA: It’s always the material that hooks me. I am drawn to narratives that possess immediacy and a visceral and emotional charge. I need to be so intrigued that I must be involved in the process of developing the material. This has always been true for me in choosing what projects to work on.
DW: Do you view films and series as agents of change, or can they affect change or do they reflect society? I’m thinking of Fringe, Pretty Little Liars, or Dexter.
MA: I believe smart writers capture and explore issues vis-á-vis characters. One great example is Dallas Buyers Club. Through these complex characters, the filmmakers explored a range of themes. I loved the transformation of Matthew McConaughey’s character from the moment he's told that he has AIDS and could take a placebo and die in a month’s time or take AZT and live much longer. The choice galvanizes him to take on his own beliefs and the medical establishment. Another example of complex characters is the movie Real Women Have Curves. I think the writer was ahead of the curve (as it were) by exploring issues of citizenship, race, class, and identity, as well as our society’s obsession with women’s value or worth being determined by their size or shape. We root for these characters.
DW: The vast majority of books are still bought by women. Why do you think?
MA: I think that women buy the majority of books most likely for the same reason that women are the biggest consumers of film and television – women like stories. However, there are also many books by successful male writers, that women read because they tell layered stories and they explore themes that I think women relate to.
DW: I’d read years ago that 78% of all purchased books are bought by women, and I didn’t know they were the biggest consumers of TV and film. Another McConaughey movie, Magic Mike, scored big with female audiences. Some hit a nerve, yet remain few and far between. Why is that?
MA: First of all, it's nearly impossible to compare books with TV and film. The experiences are so different: the former is immersive and engaging, the latter are more passive. Perhaps the issue is not so much measuring the financial success of a film, as the value of the audience that's affixed to a female audience. Considering we live in a country where women make about 77% of what men do, and the fact that Congress cannot pass equal pay legislation, this speaks to larger cultural issues. As a producer, again it's difficult for me to quantify "success" because a film's financial life will unroll over several years after its initial theatrical release (itself changing in the face of VOD). "Heathers" is a good example of this, especially since it recently debuted on Broadway. In its initial release, "Heathers" was a flop, but over the years, the last film released by a bankrupt company went onto earn millions of dollars as it found an audience.
I think the danger of viewing success only through the lens of gender and theatrical release is that both are undergoing huge transformations, though obviously, issues of gender parity have been slower to evolve than technology. Lastly, you mention, "Magic Mike," which was an ensemble piece, its success as much due to Channing Tatum, the other cast and Steven Soderbergh - you could just as easily switch out a "Magic Mike" for "Bridesmaids" or the recent spate of Cameron Diaz projects.
DW: What memorable film or TV moment is the most memorable to you and why? What has stood the test of time?
MA: There are many good scenes that have moved me. I'd find it nearly impossible to answer this question without giving you hundreds of titles. There are so many amazing scenes in Pedro Almodovar’s movies that always wind up surprising me and forcing one to look at our expectations or beliefs. For example, Hable con Ella was emotionally and visually arresting. In one of the opening scenes, we see two men, one a macho journalist and the other a nurse caretaker, sitting next to each other watching a ballet. The journalist weeps uncontrollably and the nurse remains self-contained and unmoved from what he is watching.
Or, in There Will Be Blood, the scene when Daniel Day Lewis whispers to his deaf son, as his son is walking away and his back is to his father, and says, "I love you." That scene really got to me.
Or in Lost in Translation, where we encounter two lost, disconnected characters. There's a wonderful scene where Scarlett Johansson and Bill Murray’s characters talk in his hotel room about their lives openly. We see that budding connection or rapport, regardless of age and gender. I appreciated that Sofia Coppola did not make her characters eroticize their connection, which I think most male directors would have done. I found it a very powerful and intimate moment.
Clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNK7N3AwVFQ
Dave Watson is a writer and educator. He lives in Madison, WI.
Marilyn R. Atlas: I began by producing plays. I fell in love with the use of language that some of my favorite playwrights had, and I began to realize that that mastery of language and especially sub textual dialogue would be able to translate into any performative medium. And I always found that theatre, like books, had a greater resonance for me than film and television. I can’t explain exactly why, but I feel it has something to do with the immediacy of the characters present on the stage or in my imagination. As starting points, theater offered a more compelling emotional and performative entry point, whereas books remain the only medium that go inside a character's head, an element removed from film and television.
DW: Do you still read books and look for source material?
MA: I have always been a voracious reader. I am innately curious and often read 2-3 books a week, endless magazines, newspapers, etc. If I read something that is interesting, I might see if it lends itself to film or television, but remember, the really hot projects are usually snapped up already by established production companies and producers.
DW: You produce for TV, particularly the HBO and Lifetime channels.
MA: I co-produced a movie for HBO based on a play called Real Women Have Curves. For Lifetime, I recently produced The Choking Game, based on a young adult novel called Choke, because the writing and story intrigued me.
DW: Much of your work focuses on women. Has it gotten easier for women to succeed in show business or Hollywood since you started. Loaded question, I know. Consider from the standpoint of a producer, consultant, or actress.
MA: That depends on your definition of success. There are still not enough female studio executives, directors, or cinematographers. In studies on women in film in the studio world, they are still represented only in single digits. And although cable television has become a destination for high profile actresses, there's still a dearth of women below the line, and only a handful above the line.
DW: One sometimes hear of actresses finding it hard to get work after thirty, yet some, Susan Sarandon, Geena Davis, Jeanne Triplehorn, to name just a few, have worked well after this age range. Is there a secret?
MA: From an acting standpoint, 2013 was portrayed as the year of the “bitch” – women portrayed in films from this past year are overwhelmingly playing to that one characteristic. Films geared toward women are constantly being put down as financially risky, yet when they do well (as they often do), studios are shocked and look at it as a fluke. That said, this is the first year where the biggest films of the year involved women in lead roles. One thing I’ve noticed in a lot of studio movies is that men and the quest for relationships are the center of the women’s lives but in the real lives of women I know, that is not actually the case. Television seems to provide a wider and much more complex and interesting range of female roles.
DW: I recall an interview in the late 1980s with Jody Foster and the late Gene Siskel. Gene lamented that women’s roles were in decline while Jody thought it was cyclical, that good roles for women come and go. Would you agree with either take?
MA: In my observation, there are far more roles for men than for women once you reach a certain age. I think that people are increasingly aware of this disparity, and I see a narrowing of that inequity. As for a “secret”, I think it’s due to establishing themselves early in their career and playing very memorable parts.
DW: You make an interesting observation. Are women’s roles cyclical, doing well then poorly? Is the career woman a passing fad for female characters? Say, “Ah, we’ve done that, let’s move on.”
MA: I do think that there are more interesting, three-dimensional roles for women these days, but they’re in television and not often in studio features.
DW: What do you look for when producing material? Does it change or has it changed over time?
MA: It’s always the material that hooks me. I am drawn to narratives that possess immediacy and a visceral and emotional charge. I need to be so intrigued that I must be involved in the process of developing the material. This has always been true for me in choosing what projects to work on.
DW: Do you view films and series as agents of change, or can they affect change or do they reflect society? I’m thinking of Fringe, Pretty Little Liars, or Dexter.
MA: I believe smart writers capture and explore issues vis-á-vis characters. One great example is Dallas Buyers Club. Through these complex characters, the filmmakers explored a range of themes. I loved the transformation of Matthew McConaughey’s character from the moment he's told that he has AIDS and could take a placebo and die in a month’s time or take AZT and live much longer. The choice galvanizes him to take on his own beliefs and the medical establishment. Another example of complex characters is the movie Real Women Have Curves. I think the writer was ahead of the curve (as it were) by exploring issues of citizenship, race, class, and identity, as well as our society’s obsession with women’s value or worth being determined by their size or shape. We root for these characters.
DW: The vast majority of books are still bought by women. Why do you think?
MA: I think that women buy the majority of books most likely for the same reason that women are the biggest consumers of film and television – women like stories. However, there are also many books by successful male writers, that women read because they tell layered stories and they explore themes that I think women relate to.
DW: I’d read years ago that 78% of all purchased books are bought by women, and I didn’t know they were the biggest consumers of TV and film. Another McConaughey movie, Magic Mike, scored big with female audiences. Some hit a nerve, yet remain few and far between. Why is that?
MA: First of all, it's nearly impossible to compare books with TV and film. The experiences are so different: the former is immersive and engaging, the latter are more passive. Perhaps the issue is not so much measuring the financial success of a film, as the value of the audience that's affixed to a female audience. Considering we live in a country where women make about 77% of what men do, and the fact that Congress cannot pass equal pay legislation, this speaks to larger cultural issues. As a producer, again it's difficult for me to quantify "success" because a film's financial life will unroll over several years after its initial theatrical release (itself changing in the face of VOD). "Heathers" is a good example of this, especially since it recently debuted on Broadway. In its initial release, "Heathers" was a flop, but over the years, the last film released by a bankrupt company went onto earn millions of dollars as it found an audience.
I think the danger of viewing success only through the lens of gender and theatrical release is that both are undergoing huge transformations, though obviously, issues of gender parity have been slower to evolve than technology. Lastly, you mention, "Magic Mike," which was an ensemble piece, its success as much due to Channing Tatum, the other cast and Steven Soderbergh - you could just as easily switch out a "Magic Mike" for "Bridesmaids" or the recent spate of Cameron Diaz projects.
DW: What memorable film or TV moment is the most memorable to you and why? What has stood the test of time?
MA: There are many good scenes that have moved me. I'd find it nearly impossible to answer this question without giving you hundreds of titles. There are so many amazing scenes in Pedro Almodovar’s movies that always wind up surprising me and forcing one to look at our expectations or beliefs. For example, Hable con Ella was emotionally and visually arresting. In one of the opening scenes, we see two men, one a macho journalist and the other a nurse caretaker, sitting next to each other watching a ballet. The journalist weeps uncontrollably and the nurse remains self-contained and unmoved from what he is watching.
Or, in There Will Be Blood, the scene when Daniel Day Lewis whispers to his deaf son, as his son is walking away and his back is to his father, and says, "I love you." That scene really got to me.
Or in Lost in Translation, where we encounter two lost, disconnected characters. There's a wonderful scene where Scarlett Johansson and Bill Murray’s characters talk in his hotel room about their lives openly. We see that budding connection or rapport, regardless of age and gender. I appreciated that Sofia Coppola did not make her characters eroticize their connection, which I think most male directors would have done. I found it a very powerful and intimate moment.
Clip: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNK7N3AwVFQ
Dave Watson is a writer and educator. He lives in Madison, WI.
