This is a rebroadcast from December 17, 2014. Visit Sarah's website here and her book is available via Michael Wiese Productions.
Dave Watson: Why the rise in graphic novels over the last fifteen years or so?
Sarah Beach: It's always been a fun way of presenting stories, all the way back to the dark ages. I don't think any one stuck with me, but growing up I had older siblings who had the story of the French Revolution in comic book form, along with H.G. Wells's War of the Worlds. I liked the combination of pictures and words, and the form appeals to younger readers.
DW: That ties to the cinema.
SB: Yes.
DW: What series of graphic novels inspired or grabbed you?
SB: You know, it didn't happen that way. It was a combination of many things. I always enjoyed comics, and the prose of screenwriting, novels, plays; a number of things came together. I later made friends with many professional artists and I saw the artwork they were producing. I've published short stories, but this form kind of merged pictures with words.
DW: Like the cinema. I realized over the years that all storytelling elements come together in film. Adaptations of graphic novels to film appear on the rise. Why? Snowpiercer and Persepolis come to mind.
SB: It's easier for movie producers to seek out and develop an established property. They don't necessarily care if it's a large audience, they just want an audience. For the story, with graphic novels, the story is already laid out, what it looks like, and the storytelling is already developing.
DW: You discuss reaching and finding an audience in your book. Is this different than with comics? Books?
SB: Storytelling in any form, in many ways, is in transition. Distribution is changing. Writers in any medium are doing more work. Screenwriters are not used to thinking of building an audience. Once the script is optioned, locations are chosen, the director and cast are set and the camera is rolling, screenwriters get their paycheck and move on. Going back to the early '90s, I learned that the audience pays attention to who the storytellers are. From the message boards that led to the IMDB, there were people who got messages (I knew one who worked on Genie), who would track down titles, I mean, titles of TV episodes! We didn't used to do that, know the titles of specific episodes! People started to track writers. When J. Michael Straczynski started Bablyon 5, it was a weird way as it was non-network. He wanted to run it for five years.
DW: This was when?
SB: The pilot was done around 1991 or '92, so it aired in '93 I believe. People said there was no way he was going to get syndication and keep an audience that long. But people saw how he built his audience. The first time I went to Comic-Con, I saw him fill a room of 2,000 seats! His power to hold people's attention was amazing, and Babylon 5 aired for five years.
DW: Sounds like it was way ahead of its time. The other show that comes to mind during that time was Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which a friend of mine said didn't pander to its audience.
SB: Yes! One of the things those shows do very well.
DW: Longevity in mind, are character arcs different in graphic novels versus, say, feature films or in print books?
SB: For feature films, people expect a change in a character. Something will happen that matters, and you can go along with it. Graphic novels on the other hand are a closed story. People can change a certain amount when the story is ongoing and when the publisher views the story as a franchise, these are a different set of issues. If Sherlock Holmes, for instance, fell in love, settled down, started to raise puppies and kids, would he still be Sherlock Holmes? Um, no. Characters need to be consistent and what's important are the markers in their lives. Those markers can also have a permanent effect. I once wrote a paper on the Batman mythos and discussed the story where the second Robin, Jason Todd, is killed. I felt this was important to the franchise, because death was real. It had real impact on the character of Batman. Years later, the company brought Jason back to life, which I thought was a mistake.
DW: Jason’s death raised the stakes for him.
SB: Yes, it had a huge impact on Batman the character.
DW: Graphic novels strike me as character driven, then. Are they plot driven as well?
SB: I think they are character driven, and that's a story people prefer. Action gets plot driven, like with Transformers and Pacific Rim, which I saw recently.
DW: I remember the effects and the entire world they created more than anything said in the latter.
SB: Absolutely, and with graphic novels it depends on what the talking heads are saying. Of course there is a visual element. If the talking head is just talking, going on and on, I say, "Give me something to look at!" There has to be drama.
DW: A writing teacher once said, events aren't drama, reaction is.
SB: Exactly. There has to be an emotional subtext. Screenwriters and writers often don't get how important that is, how important exposition is, and how it has to continue. I read a comic once that has our hero pursuing the villain on a motorcycle through the rain, and it took up eleven of the twenty-two pages. There were no plot points. I love the artist, but that was disappointing.
DW: In your book, you say distribution is key.
SB: It's very limited with regular publishers. We still have the single-distributor, Diamond Distribution, which gets the graphic novels to specialty shops. Traditional publishers are getting into the act; it's changing a little, but most comics have to connect with their readers at the local comic shop. Information about a new title has to get to that starting point, and then spread to regular book stores. You don't want to finish your graphic novel, print 2,000 copies, then ask yourself, "How do I get it out there?"
DW: What's key for marketing a graphic novel then? The standard tagline, logline, or hook?
SB: It's a combination of all that. You can have a terrific premise and logline, but if it's drawn with stick figures, you may have problems (laughs). You can also have great pictures and the talk is boring, or simply have bad writing. You can lose an audience very quickly. The power of particulars work fast if there is no feel for the characters or if the action is not quickly engaging. Prose tends to suck us in, and with graphic novels, it better be by the third or fourth page.
DW: What's next for you?
SB: I'm working on fiction regarding Lady Godiva. She tried to help people by convincing her husband to lower taxes, and he asked her to ride through the village naked. I have a masters degree in Medieval Literature and and asked myself, why Coventry? It was a tiny village then. I've studied the era a lot, so I decided to assume the story is true.
DW: What is your favorite cinematic moment?
SB: Wow...I would have to say the last images of Apocalypse Now, where Captain Kurtz's face fades into the stone statue. When I saw that I said, "That is a film's film!" The other image that comes to mind is in Lawrence of Arabia, when Lawrence and his guide first see Ali as a dot on the horizon coming toward them.
DW: Some people point to that image, as it says so much on what that film is about.
SB: It is still such a striking image.
Clip: Apocalypse Now
Clip: Lawrence of Arabia
Dave Watson: Why the rise in graphic novels over the last fifteen years or so?
Sarah Beach: It's always been a fun way of presenting stories, all the way back to the dark ages. I don't think any one stuck with me, but growing up I had older siblings who had the story of the French Revolution in comic book form, along with H.G. Wells's War of the Worlds. I liked the combination of pictures and words, and the form appeals to younger readers.
DW: That ties to the cinema.
SB: Yes.
DW: What series of graphic novels inspired or grabbed you?
SB: You know, it didn't happen that way. It was a combination of many things. I always enjoyed comics, and the prose of screenwriting, novels, plays; a number of things came together. I later made friends with many professional artists and I saw the artwork they were producing. I've published short stories, but this form kind of merged pictures with words.
DW: Like the cinema. I realized over the years that all storytelling elements come together in film. Adaptations of graphic novels to film appear on the rise. Why? Snowpiercer and Persepolis come to mind.
SB: It's easier for movie producers to seek out and develop an established property. They don't necessarily care if it's a large audience, they just want an audience. For the story, with graphic novels, the story is already laid out, what it looks like, and the storytelling is already developing.
DW: You discuss reaching and finding an audience in your book. Is this different than with comics? Books?
SB: Storytelling in any form, in many ways, is in transition. Distribution is changing. Writers in any medium are doing more work. Screenwriters are not used to thinking of building an audience. Once the script is optioned, locations are chosen, the director and cast are set and the camera is rolling, screenwriters get their paycheck and move on. Going back to the early '90s, I learned that the audience pays attention to who the storytellers are. From the message boards that led to the IMDB, there were people who got messages (I knew one who worked on Genie), who would track down titles, I mean, titles of TV episodes! We didn't used to do that, know the titles of specific episodes! People started to track writers. When J. Michael Straczynski started Bablyon 5, it was a weird way as it was non-network. He wanted to run it for five years.
DW: This was when?
SB: The pilot was done around 1991 or '92, so it aired in '93 I believe. People said there was no way he was going to get syndication and keep an audience that long. But people saw how he built his audience. The first time I went to Comic-Con, I saw him fill a room of 2,000 seats! His power to hold people's attention was amazing, and Babylon 5 aired for five years.
DW: Sounds like it was way ahead of its time. The other show that comes to mind during that time was Buffy the Vampire Slayer, which a friend of mine said didn't pander to its audience.
SB: Yes! One of the things those shows do very well.
DW: Longevity in mind, are character arcs different in graphic novels versus, say, feature films or in print books?
SB: For feature films, people expect a change in a character. Something will happen that matters, and you can go along with it. Graphic novels on the other hand are a closed story. People can change a certain amount when the story is ongoing and when the publisher views the story as a franchise, these are a different set of issues. If Sherlock Holmes, for instance, fell in love, settled down, started to raise puppies and kids, would he still be Sherlock Holmes? Um, no. Characters need to be consistent and what's important are the markers in their lives. Those markers can also have a permanent effect. I once wrote a paper on the Batman mythos and discussed the story where the second Robin, Jason Todd, is killed. I felt this was important to the franchise, because death was real. It had real impact on the character of Batman. Years later, the company brought Jason back to life, which I thought was a mistake.
DW: Jason’s death raised the stakes for him.
SB: Yes, it had a huge impact on Batman the character.
DW: Graphic novels strike me as character driven, then. Are they plot driven as well?
SB: I think they are character driven, and that's a story people prefer. Action gets plot driven, like with Transformers and Pacific Rim, which I saw recently.
DW: I remember the effects and the entire world they created more than anything said in the latter.
SB: Absolutely, and with graphic novels it depends on what the talking heads are saying. Of course there is a visual element. If the talking head is just talking, going on and on, I say, "Give me something to look at!" There has to be drama.
DW: A writing teacher once said, events aren't drama, reaction is.
SB: Exactly. There has to be an emotional subtext. Screenwriters and writers often don't get how important that is, how important exposition is, and how it has to continue. I read a comic once that has our hero pursuing the villain on a motorcycle through the rain, and it took up eleven of the twenty-two pages. There were no plot points. I love the artist, but that was disappointing.
DW: In your book, you say distribution is key.
SB: It's very limited with regular publishers. We still have the single-distributor, Diamond Distribution, which gets the graphic novels to specialty shops. Traditional publishers are getting into the act; it's changing a little, but most comics have to connect with their readers at the local comic shop. Information about a new title has to get to that starting point, and then spread to regular book stores. You don't want to finish your graphic novel, print 2,000 copies, then ask yourself, "How do I get it out there?"
DW: What's key for marketing a graphic novel then? The standard tagline, logline, or hook?
SB: It's a combination of all that. You can have a terrific premise and logline, but if it's drawn with stick figures, you may have problems (laughs). You can also have great pictures and the talk is boring, or simply have bad writing. You can lose an audience very quickly. The power of particulars work fast if there is no feel for the characters or if the action is not quickly engaging. Prose tends to suck us in, and with graphic novels, it better be by the third or fourth page.
DW: What's next for you?
SB: I'm working on fiction regarding Lady Godiva. She tried to help people by convincing her husband to lower taxes, and he asked her to ride through the village naked. I have a masters degree in Medieval Literature and and asked myself, why Coventry? It was a tiny village then. I've studied the era a lot, so I decided to assume the story is true.
DW: What is your favorite cinematic moment?
SB: Wow...I would have to say the last images of Apocalypse Now, where Captain Kurtz's face fades into the stone statue. When I saw that I said, "That is a film's film!" The other image that comes to mind is in Lawrence of Arabia, when Lawrence and his guide first see Ali as a dot on the horizon coming toward them.
DW: Some people point to that image, as it says so much on what that film is about.
SB: It is still such a striking image.
Clip: Apocalypse Now
Clip: Lawrence of Arabia
